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1977 36' SportFish

 
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pncmathias
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:30 pm    Post subject: 1977 36' SportFish Reply with quote

I all I am new to the site. I am considering purchasing the above mentioned boat. Cosmeticly it is rough and the back bulkhead and starboard side window is shot. Machinery wise is the up side. 250 hrs on 454 Crusaders that you can eat off of. The bilge is sparkleing clean. Has anyone had this work done and have any idea what this job is worth?

Thanks!
Paul
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I purchased new windows for my 28 footer 2 years ago and put them in myself. I remember the windows were around $350 each. I had to replace all of the rotted wood around the windows, not the bulkhead. It was still a big job. I did all of the work myself but there are lots of guys here who can help you. How bad is the bulkhead? is it totally shot?
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pncmathias
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:22 pm    Post subject: 1977 36' SportFish Reply with quote

The rear bulkhead is so bad on the starboard side that the aftmost window glass touches at the top and at the bottom is a 1/2 gap. The plywood has delaminated in the top 1/4 of the bulkhead. The plywood behind the wire chase to the bridge is gone. The plywood 1/2 way forward under the windows is delaminating. It is not pretty.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, I was hoping there would be enough to use as a template but it sounds like thats not going to be the case. OK, so now you have a couple of choices, Neither is going to be easy. I would start with the rear bulkhead and replace the rotted wood with new marine plywood, then move to the area behind the wire chase. Second option is to try and rebuild the rotted wood with epoxy from the rot doctor http://www.rotdoctor.com/L/BoatL/Bqa.html
This means you dont pull the rotted wood but inject an epoxy resin into it to make it strong and solid.
On my boat, I took the windows out and then air chiseled out all of the rotted wood. I then replaced the wood with starboard (plastic wood) I used Gorilla glue and clamps to hold the starboard in place. Its really a matter of your preference but I would start pulling the rotted wood if you plan on keeping the boat it will be better in the long haul if the wood is new. Doing the work yourself will be cheaper than hiring someone, you could even try and work out a job trade with a fellow boater if you have a particular knack at doing something other boaters need ( painting bottoms is a good one at my club, people are always looking for someone else to paint the bottom of their boat) Just dont let the whole job get you down, start on the bulkhead and dont worry about the rest until the bulkhead is done.
Hows the wiring?
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pncmathias
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:08 pm    Post subject: 1977 36' SF Reply with quote

One of the good things is the boat has the full Original owners package. Wiring diagrams, owners manuel, all accessory manuels, All in a blue Pacemaker Plastic file folder. I have never seenone before.
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pncmathias
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:23 pm    Post subject: 1977 36' SF Reply with quote

Here is a picture:
[img][/URL][/img]
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was lucky also as I got the owners packet also. If you have a way of getting them scanned on your computer maybe you could share them with fellow Pace owners here as thats the kind of info we all want and is hard to come by.
here is a picture from last year of my Pace
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merwin10
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the sister ship and that is normal that those panels rot away! If you are planning on keeping the slider glass the job is faily easy - the bulkhead is made up of two 3/4 pieces of plywood epoxy together so you have a 1 1/2 thich piece. I epoxied mine and covered with gel coat when I replaced them. The bigger issue is how far the rot has gone behind the bulkhead. There is a oak support that reenforces the bridge it is behind the stainless steel side pieces iif that is rotted then you will need to repalce it also. Mine was so it was a trip to the lumber yard for a piece of white oak again I epoxied it in and covered it in gel coat! Took about 2 hours to remove everything! A day making the new pieces to include the expoy and gel coat and about another two hours to install.

Now a friend of mine has the same boat with the same issue he took another route. he tore everything out and had the slider replaced with a fiberglass bulkhead and swinging door with a window like the newer baots have, by the boat yard, cost about $6000! Looks nice but I don't know if he is going to have any issues as the engines come out thur the slider and the new door is not wide enough to do so! That is down the road for him! He will most likely have to cut the door and bulkhead out when that time comes!

Mike - Wink
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pncmathias
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:33 pm    Post subject: 1977 36' SportFish Reply with quote

Do you have any pictures you could post taken during the replacement of the bulkhead?
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merwin10
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry no pictures did not think to take pictures! Focused on the job at hand!

Mike -
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Rob
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a 38's/f I would love to find wiring info on.
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merwin10
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob -

You are going to have to give more information - 38' Alglas or Pacrmaker? Year? Gas or Diesel? Model= Sportfish - aft cabin etc.? As much information as you have to insure you get the correct wiring diagram?


Mike - Rolling Eyes
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Rob
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1972 38 Pacemaker S/F. originaly had 454s.Now it has 210 cummins deisels. Someone made a small mess out of the wiring, I have been repairing it for 2 years, its moving along okay, I just wouldn't mind having the correct info.

Thanks, Rob
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merwin10
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob -

That is going to be difficult as the orginal wiring is for gas and as you know who did what when they installed the 210 cummins -

Best thing I can do for you quickly is to advise you to rewire to the current AYBC standards -

You can get a copy on my site - http://home.comcast.net/~merwin10/myfilelocker/boat_elec_Abyc.pdf

We would be glad to help you out any way we can but you are going to have a tough road as you are dealing with a conversion. We have some circuits and can attack them one at a time! Whether or not they have been touched before during the conversion is unknown!

Give us a shot! See what we can come up with -

Mike - Rolling Eyes
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Rob
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I took a quick look, looks like it will definately help.

Thanks
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merwin10
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob -

From our experience with these old boats yours especially, wiring is a real headache! The reason is over the years and many owners things where added and changed! Of course they may or may not, mostly my not, know the correct way to wire a boat! Hence there are lots of circuits that go no-where and wires that are not marked as to what they are. The best way we have found is to take one circuit at a time and bring it up to the current standards -

In general, use only tinned AWG marine grade wire of the correct size for the wattage and length of the run - Remember that the longer the run the larger the wire. So if you are wire a pump that is 20 feet from the battery the wire run is 2 x 20 or 40 feet. Why times two well you have a positive and a negative side of the circuit both determine the wire run length.

You also need to consider if the circuit is critical or not! Critical circuits have a 3% voltage drop across the distance where non-critical circuit can have a 10% voltage drop! Again this is used to determine the size of wire to use!

There are many attributes to wiring certain accessories, the best thing I can tell you is before you start a project check with us! There is plenty of knowledge here on this site! Some is engineering some was learned by the school of hard knocks! Either way, it is to your advantage to learn from others mistakes rather than learning it on your own and a hell of allot cheaper!

At times you will question whether or not you made a wise choice buying such an old boat, we all do! By doing things yourself you will become a better boater - so when you break down a hundred miles from nowhere you will know what to do! There are no boat mechanics out on the water you are on your own! The more knowledge you have about your boat the better -

Mike - Wink
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Rob
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Mike, we love our old boat, we enjoy making changes and doing the work on our own. There are a lot of those wires that go no where but I'll get through it.

Rob
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merwin10
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep! When I started on mine was when I put hydraulic steering in - of course I had to come down the wire chase - It was so stuff that there was no way! So I started pulling on wires and got a little concerned when ends keep coming out - by the time I was done I had half a 55 gallon drum of wire that went nowhere - Mostly copper and corroded! I got up under my bridge console and oh my god the owner before me must have cornered the market on red wire - everything had red wire going to it! The problem there was it looked like someone drop a bowl of spaghetti - There was ono rhime or reason as to what went where! Fortunately for me the orginal wiring harness was still in tact and was nice and neat and tied off - so it was just the panel that was FUBAR.

I went out and got several spools of different color according to the AYBC color code got wire cutters and started in - by the time I was done it was like the factory did the job! By the way the 55 gallon drum was now full of wire mostly 12GA red copper wire!

That is what you face when you start on these old boats they have had 35 years of lets wire this or that! By the way the engine room was not much better four banks of batteries and not a black wire to be seen - you guess it all reds -

Mike - Surprised
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Rob
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, sounds like the guy that worked on your boat is the same guy that worked on my boat. Either that or there was a real good deal on red wire back then.
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rebait
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That guy must get around because mine had it's fair share of added red wires. One previous owner loved yellow. I lost track of how many old transducer cables were found abandoned. The original owner must have bought a new depth finder almost every year. That is part of the fun in owning a classic boat.

John
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will have to say the same guy must have wired my boat also. I had more wires going nowhere than anything, took 2 of us to track down each end
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merwin10
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob -

See that is what I am talking about - your not alone on your boat! You will find that most of us that love these old boats run into the same things over and over!

Mike - Wink
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just remembered one item that I found last summer right before going out fishing, one of the guages on the back down station wasnt working so I pulled the 8 pole connector in the wiring harness apart to check all of the connections. Someone actuallt replaced a rotted pin connector with a finish nail. This is the second older boat that my wife and I have restored and I never found anything like that before, At first I thought that maybe it was put in during an emergency while out at sea, then I thought, why would you have a regular old finish nail on a boat? I remember on the last boat that I restored I thought the 4" galvanized pipe used for exhaust was bad, it weighed about 100 lbs, and was wrapped in insulation and duct tape, I guess to try and quiet it down. I guess you just never know what you will run into, maybe thats half of the fun.
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rebait
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you think boats are fun and you find all kinds of odd stuff done, just restore an old car.

John
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