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Thunderbolt ignition-no coil spark

 
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LadyMcBride
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Joined: 23 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:33 pm    Post subject: Thunderbolt ignition-no coil spark Reply with quote

got the flybridge back on, hydralics and wiring re hooked up...fired up the starboard engine..yippie...turned the port engine over...it cranks and is getting fuel but no spark coming out of the bran box to the distributor.....trouble shooting guide says no coil spark can be a bad switch, shorted tach, loose connection, coil, etc. can't help but to think it's something simple since there was no problem before the dismantling...........going to get a mechanic to help me diagnose..allready had one mechanic tell me need a new dist and entire ignition system because he can't get any parts...I told him all parts are available it's a mercruiser thunderblt 4 ignition....
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rebait
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have power going into the "brain box" and none coming out, try swapping the box with the other engine, that way you eliminate the box. If this is not the problem, I would start from the basics and check for power to and from the ignition switch and then check all connections and wires including the grounds. You said that you had the bridge off. I would check the disturbed wiring for continuity. Follow the trouble shooting guide to the letter and let us know what you have found. There is no magic solution for electrical problems. Just common sense, patience amd complete the cicuit. Sitting at the computer it is just guesses.

John
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LadyMcBride
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks...with my schedule, friday will be the diagnostic day..will follow up..
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merwin10
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fist this is going to be wordy but easy and quick to do! It is just telling you not knowing your expertise with trouble shooting I will spell each step out! This section will be on the coil circuit. You need a DC meter that will read 15 volts, 3 foot jumper wire and a ignition jumper box if you don’t have one you will need a second person. Since you did not mention the model engine it is difficult to be specific.

Forget the mechanic's suggestion! There can be several things that can be bad! These run from the easy to the hard, no dc power to the coil, the internal eye in the distributor, the pickup amp, bad balance resistor, bad start circuit, bad ignition switch, bad solenoid, bad secondary solenoid faulty wiring, faulty neutral position switch and the list goes on! One note here each time we connect the meter leads and or jumper wire you need to verify that you have a connection before taking the measurement. You can go down the wrong path easy if you do NOT verify the connection each time. Here we go!!!!

Ok let’s start with the basics! This is best done with two people! First you need to check for power to the coil. Now there are usually two circuits first one is easy! Turn the ignition switch to run position go down to the engine and with a dc meter measure the voltage across the coil, the two smaller post on the coil, one primary is marked positive and the other is negative. Place the positive lead of the meter on the positive lead of the coil and the negative meter lead on the negative terminal of the coil. You may see less than 12 volts as the balance resistor may be in line! If you don't see any voltage you need to check both positive and negative sides of the coil.

First let’s check the negative side hold the negative meter probe on the negative pole on the coil, take the positive lead of the meter and touch a positive source like the battery or the main upper terminal of the starter. If you see 12 volts the negative circuit is ok, if not you need to check the negative lead of the coil make sure it is grounded well and all connections are clean. Once you get that done and you can now read a voltage that circuit is ok! If the negative circuit is ok now check the positive circuit.

First we will determine if that is the problem. Take a jumper wire with alligator clips clip one end to the positive pole on the coil and the other to a positive source like the battery positive post! Now Crank the engine over if the engine starts then the issue is in the positive circuit of the coil. Disconnect the jumper wire at the positive source to shut the engine down. If you disconnect the jumper at the coil it would still shut the engine down but there is a chance of getting shocked with 20,000 plus volts from the coil. Won’t kill to but it will make you stand up and take notice in a big way!

On older engines there where two positive coil circuits one for starting one for running! These circuits are switched in and out by the starter solenoid. When you turn the ignition key to crank the engine over the solenoid connected 12 volts directly from the battery to the coil. This helped with hard starting! When you let go of the key the starter disengaged and the secondary circuit cut in thru a balance resistor which supplied a little less voltage around 10 volts. This was done to keep from burning out coils. So what this all means is that the starter solenoid or the ignition switch or wiring between or both could be bad. Since we already ruled out the coil by using the jumper wire we need to work back from the coil positive pole.

Follow the positive wire there might be two of them one will go to the starter the other will go to the balance resistor circuit. Let’s do the one to the starter solenoid you will see that on the starter solenoid two smaller posts this wire should go to one of them. This wire may run thru a secondary solenoid. Take your dc meter put the negative lead to ground and the positive to the small post on the solenoid now have a buddy crank the engine over while you measure 12volts at the post. If you see 12 volts then the wire is bad. To prove this take your jumper wire and connect one end to the solenoid post and the other to the positive side of the coil. Crank the engine over if it starts you found the problem. The engine may shut right down after it starts when your buddy lets go of the ignition switch and it goes to the run position. This indicates that the balance resistor circuit has an issue.

So now we need to trace back from the coil thru the run circuit again here we are looking for bad wires and connections. There may be a faulty balance resistor and or secondary solenoid, a bad fuse or circuit breaker and bad 12 volt source. Turn the ignition switch to run. We are going to use the meter again connect the negative probe to ground some where, don’t forget to verify that you have a connection by touching the positive lead to positive on the battery. Ok start working back from the coil to the battery on the second wire. Each time you come to a junction or connection touch the positive lead to a clean point and look for voltage. Remember this might not be 12 volts more like 10 volts. Keep working up the wire till you find a voltage. When you do you are at the problem usually ends like voltage on one side and no voltage on the other side. That is the bad component. To verify this all you need to do is jumper from one terminal to the other. Turn the key and see if the engine runs.

If everything is ok then we need to look less where! Let me know what you find! You are much better off doing this yourself as electrical issues can get to be expensive quickly. The PLUS side of this exercise is that you will gain knowledge of your boat! Some day you may have a issue out on the water and what you have learned will save the day and make you a better boater.

Hope this helps!!!

Mike - Rolling Eyes "thinking"
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leokow
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leave it to Mike to give you a step by step outline of what to do to get you started. He's our human encyclopedia !
For me, I kind of agree with Rebait. If everything worked before you took it apart then most likely it's something you did wrong or left un- done that is the problem. I wouldn't listen to that mechanic either, they are very good at spending other peoples money while guessing at what the trouble is. Also , as Rebait said check the good engine against the bad one, check the voltage into the box on each engine and what's coming out of each box. If the volts going in are the same , then I would consider swap the boxes to see if the bad engine then starts, if so, then you know exactly what to buy......Leo
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merwin10
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Leo -

What do you mean "step by step outline of what to do to get you started. He's our human encyclopedia ! " I don't know LadyMcBride's troubleshooting experience. That is it no more lengthy explainations! I am out of here!






Down













Only kidding!! LOL

Mike - Rolling Eyes
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leokow
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK Mike..... you got me !! How can you pull something like that on me with what's been going on in my life ? you should be ashamed of your self !!!
GOD bless, you Mike, I don't know what I'd do without a little humor now and then. I have to admit when I first started reading it my stomach churned a little bit, I thought ,"here I go again , opening my big polish/italian mouth" then I saw the down and things settled out for me.
I know you know that saying about paybacks being a BITCH, well.... C ya later thanks for the laugh...Leo
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merwin10
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leo -

I would never do that to you or this board. I just thought you could use a little cheer and a laugh! Sometimes laughter is all there is in life and in the end it cheers you up! Again give my regards to Danielle! Good to hear you back and that things are looking up! Don't worry I am not going anywhere either is this forum. Ok

LOL

Mike -encyclopedia- Wink
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leokow
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks,Mike, I'm heading back down to Florida on monday, I'm hoping that 1 more month will see her up and around again, of course she wants me to stay forever, and I would like too, but I still have obligations up here and in NJ, plus with this pump in me I can't take the heat anymore. When the temp hits 90 I'm inside for the duration,as this medicine makes me feel about 10 degrees hotter than it really is, and up here that's only a few days of the summer but down there its from May to Sept. and I'm not ready to turn in to a hermit just yet. Have a great weekend, Mike, and I'll get back on the board as soon as I can. Thank you ...Leo
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merwin10
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leo -

Drive careful, our prays are with you! Gee seens you have a medical condition concerning heat it would seem that AC for the boat should be a tax write off! Maybe even a generator to run it while under way! LOL

Mike - Laughing
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