Pacemaker Boats

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With my engines, the paperwork says the timing should be 28 degrees before top dead center at 4000 rpm. When I set it, I have a timing light that lets me adjust the light to a set rpm by turning a knob on the back of the light. We had a debate at the club last night and 2 different methods were at the center of the debate. 1) the only true way to set the timing is to set it with the boat running at 4000 rpm and 2) set it as you would any car engine using a stock timing light and the marks on the block so that its around 6 - 8 degrees before top dead center. Now I set my timing as I mentioned and on Sunday had made a run at full throttle for the first time with the new port engine. My GPS said I had a top speed of just over 21 knots. My tach showed just over 4000 rpm for the engines. I thought that was pretty good for the old girl. I am wondering if thats the most or should I see about advancing the timing for more speed. Any thoughts guys?

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Terry,

The way you set the timing is fine and with today's fuel I would not advance it anymore. Set it the way the factory specifies and you should not have any problems. The paperwork said 28 degress BTC @ 4000 rpm so that you would have the proper spark advance. I would not just set the timing at 6 to 8 BTC as a car, because different applications call for different spark curves. I tend to stay out of those "discussions".

John

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Thanks John. I always seem to get into these "porch" discussions at the club. We like to sit outside the clubhouse before and after trips or when we are just there for the peace and quiet and a discussion will come up about someones boat or about a certain project we want to do. Since I just about live there (5 days last week) I'm always sitting outside and the regulars will usually start by asking how the boat is coming along or hows the fishing going etc. Most times they will sit and have a beer and thats when these discussions start. I thought 21 knots was pretty good for my boat since its a 74 and heavy. A few people felt I should be able to go a little faster. The discussion started on prop size and I said mine were the same ones that were with the original engines which I think were 220 HP 307's. I am running 270 HP 350's and it shouldnt be a problem. Fuel economy was next and I calculate that I'm burning around 8 gallons an hour based on my fuel usage ( my floscan was removed because they were not working and I replaced the gages with newer tachs). Of course, the timing came up because I was told I should be burning less at cruising speed especially since I was staying at 3000 rpm or below to break in the new port engine. Bottom line is it raised a question in my mind about having the engine set correctly so when they pull me later today, I might pull a plug and see how they are burning, If they have a nice glaze then I wont change anything. I will be changing the oil because I have more than 17 hours on the engine and it should have been changed by now.

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Terry,

Changing the oil and filter is cheap insurance. I am a fanatic on both the boat and vehicles. I know what you mean about those discussions. I have a guy in the slip next to me who is an expert in everything. He is so convincing that he has me doubting myself, until I remember where it is coming from. His boat usually makes 3 or 4 trips, gets towed in and that is it for the season, because he starts working on it. He should be good this season, because he had the marina switch engines with a boat that he bought last year. His boat was so messed up that the mechanic had over 100 hrs in it, mostly because of his doing. That perfect engine and outdrive (he has a 26' Sea Ray that he converted over for fishing, not a bad job) that he bought turned out that it needed bellows, a rebuilt lower unit and a host of other things. They got it all together and he took it out for a few hours and came back with a main seal leak that gives the Valdez a run for it's money. The mechanic wanted to drop the pan when he was working on it and reseal everything, but he insisted that they install it as is. I tried to help him when I first met him, but he would rather listen to the gospel according to his unemployed bar buddies. I just tell him that I am a pipeline welder and try not to get involved.

Good Luck,

John

[leokow]

Hey Terry & John..nice discussion going on there... Well , I might as well throw my two cents in, for whatever it's worth. I can tell you how I did everything with Overdue and some of the other boats that I have worked on. First , Overdue , when she was running in top form without any extra weight on board and without any top over the bridge.Running with the enclosure closed up on the bridge is like running your car with a 4x8 sheet of plywood proped up on your windshield, it's about as aero dynamic as a rock ! It was about 6AM and the conditions were perfect for a good run across Great bay , it's a couple of mile trip from an ICW marker 139 to my entrance into the lagoon. I ran out to the marker and on the return run opened her up. About half way back she hit 28 mph which was just great as far as I was concerned. Just knowing she could run that well without blowing up made my day. However , crusing I normally ran her at 2800RPM which gave me between 17 & 18 knots with the enclosure on and the windows open. When I timed the engines the first time I set them to 8 degrees BTDC and she ran decent but not quite right. So I took the advice of an old pipeline welder(LOL) like you know who, and ran the boat out with a friend on board, he drove and I had the distributor slightly loosened and while he watched the tach and rotated the distributor both ways until I got a decrease in rpm's no matter which way it moved. It turned out to be the best way to get it right and I never had to mess with it again. I also agree with the guys that say you should be getting a little more out of her the way she's powered. Overdue had 2 -318's rated at 225hp and ran as I said earlier. With 350's you should be doing a few knots better than I did. Also your engines are both brand new, the port engine on Overdue was old, only the starboard engine was new. My props and trans. are about the same as yours and the weight should be close too,mine was 72 and yours 74, I don't think there was that much of a difference. My new boat is a 74 30ftr. with 350 crusaders in it , that are supposed to be rebuilt in 2004, they certainly look it and run like it. It is a much heavier boat than the 28, at least a few thousand lbs., and at 3000RPMs she'll run at 21knts. all day long, but she'll eat around 12 to 14 GPH ,if I drop her down to 2800rpms she eats between 8 & 10 gph and runs at 17 to 18 knts.
Overdue, which is a boat almost identical to yours used 8 to 10 gph at 2800rpm and gave me about 17 to 18 knts.
You should definitely be getting more speed out of your boat,but remember to knock off about 6 or 7 knts. for having the enclosure up.
It doesn't bother you too much at the 2800 rpm speed but when you try to ratchet it up to WOT then it's like someone put the brakes on. Ok,Pal..that's my 2 cents hope it helps you out a little,we'll have to check with the pipeline welder to see if he knows anyone that can give us an opinion. Talk to you later ...Leo
BTW.. the gas that was in my boat over the winter had e-zorb and startron in it and it is in good condition, runs absolutely fine. So that's 11 months of storage. nice to know.

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OK had the boat pulled today at 4 pm in front of the fast moving thunderstorm. every metal part on the bottom of the boat was covered with growth, the copper grounding tube, the shafts, the props, the trim tabs, everything. It took me over an hour with the power washer to clean it all off. I also had a black and a white plastic bag wrapped around the stbd shaft. Based on the amount of growth, 21 knots was good. When I go back in after labor day, I'll make a wot run first thing to see if I can get more speed. I will also check my props and see if I can see what they are since they may also be incorrect for what I have. I dont know what they are since they were on the boat when I got it. By the way, wot is 4400 rpms by my tachs

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Leo,

My cousin Tony is a 75 yr old retired Ford Mechanic. He taught me a trick on setting timing when we had a problem with pinging and no power on our Ford lamp trucks, which were modified Boyertown step van bodies with 6 cyl engines in 1973. The way the truck was built and modified it was impossible to see the timing marks. He told me to use a vacuum gauge. Advance the timing to maximum vacuum and back off 2" of vacuum. This corrected the problem and we never had a problem again. This has worked for me many a time when the marks are unreadible for some reason. By the way, he had a 1957 Ford, that had a worked over 390 backed up by a 3speed with OD. He bought the car new and had it until 1974 when it was totaled as it was parked on a Sunday morning as he was picking up the paper. He beat my 1968 396 Chevelle, my 1955 327/4spd Chevy, my 1969 350 Camaro and my 1971 350 Camaro. I did beat him with my 1963 390 4spd Ford Galaxie, which he warmed the engine over. Thinking about it, he may have let me win. He may have been one of the best natural mechanics that I have known.

John

[leokow]

I think he let you WIN !!! John , he sounds like a real good guy and I like that vacuum idea for the timing. I was always a little nervous about doing that power timing thing anyway. This is much easier and with the experience he has I wouldn't even dare to doubt the accuracy of it , thanks...Leo

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Leo,

The sad part is that once his wife died, he became a bit of a reclouse. He was a very outgoing upbeat guy. We did not even get a reply back from him for my daughter's wedding. Phone calls go unanswered. I spoke to his oldest daughter and she tells me that he will come down to her house in Jackson, stay for a few days, ask if she heard from any of his family, calls himself a jerk for not buying an Esso Station in 1958, he never should have listened to his wife and just bought it. She hands him the telephone with my number and tells him to call me. He says later. Tinkers with a 1953 Ford pickup. Then he goes home. He has a heart condition, calcium deposits in his hands, arthritis in his back and problems with his knees. He always asks about me but he won't let her call me to tell her that he is there. I stopped by his house a couple of times, but if he is home he doesn't answer. I spoke to my other cousins and they get the same response. It seems to stem from an argument his wife had with one of my aunts 26yrs ago.

John

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John...that is a heart breaking story. Sometimes in older people, they are so wrapped up in their partners that once one is gone they get totally lost and just can't or don't want to cope with day to day living. If I had to list all of the things that I had chance to do and am now sorry for not doing, I would need 2 computers to list them. I think he might just relate to that story because it involves his wife. Maybe, he doesn't want to see family alone because he was always used to being together with her when family was together and now he just can't habdle it. Who knows, John, some really crazy things go on in oldeer peoples minds when the lose their partners, I've been thru that deal before and for some reason you just can't get thru to them. OK, John, I've got to get off to one of my favorite places for a noon appointment, more DRS., talk to you later....Leo