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Tranducer Paint

 
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jschof76
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:25 pm    Post subject: Tranducer Paint Reply with quote

Will transducer paint effect the transducer being able to do its job? I am having a difficult time with a depth finder and I am trying to elimiate thing any help would be greatly appricated.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It should be ok if you used water-based anti-fouling paint and not a solvent based type since the solvents used in solvent based paints may attack the plastic and cause it to soften ruining the sensor head. If you still have the can of paint, look on the side and see if the solvents listed are methyl ethyl ketone, xylene, mineral spirits or similar. If it does you used the wrong kind of paint. Water based coatings used glycols, propylene glycol, ethyl glycol, butyl cellosolve etc
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jschof76
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still do have the paint and it does have one of those listed. Can I hop in the water and rubb it off and hope I did no harm or is it reversable, this really bothers me. Thanks for your expertice.

Jack
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hopefully it hasnt softened the plastic sensor too much. if you rub it off, you might be able to save it. you might make it worse if rubbing it makes it rough. at this point I would try rubbing it off but not with anything too abrasive
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leokow
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jack, the correct paint for that is sold in little bottles and that's all it's used for. What is your depthfinder doing ? It's hard to believe that one coat of solvent based paint could affect your transducer to the point of causing a problem..If you painted it with the boat out of the water, which I assume it was,then the solvent should have flashed off into the air. Now if you kept re-coating it, that's a different story. But we still need to know what the finder is doing that you don't like....Leo
Terry, am I right about the flash off ? It's a pretty small area to have been damaged by solvent.
I've wiped the bottom of mine with acetone before recoating and it never seemed to bother it.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leo, It depends on the vapor density of the solvent used, I'll not get technical here but each solvent vaporizes at different rates. Acetone like you use is pretty fast at becoming air borne. Thats why its used in things like nail polish. Some of the solvents used in paints are much slower to allow the paint to flow out evenly. Now in the transducer, the electrical sensor was originally setup to read through a protective cover, usually a type of plastic or plexiglass type material. If the paint had a slow evaporating type solvent (like I posted earlier) then its possible that the solvent in the paint made the surface of the cover rough or less transparent and now the electronic sensor cant "see" correctly. Best case scenario is that once the paint is removed, the transducer will function normally again. You are also correct that there is a paint made just for use on transducers and its a water-based coating due to the type of solvent that can be used (glycols)
Terry
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rebait
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry,

I guess that it would be safe to say that the slower the solvent is to flash, come to the surface or evaporate, it will penetrate the plastic deeper and may react with the composition of the plastic? I am relating this to refinishing vehicles and part of the reason we apply a sealer (which is fast drying) before applying the top coats to avoid reactions from old repairs or previous finishes.

John
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jschof76
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leo, the the sounder screen is doing nothing at this point, what I mean is just lines where the numbers would ussaully be. I did put two coats on, but I did not spray heavy coats. I used the same stuff on my boats traducer, and it still worked. Well I guess the best thing I can do is hop on the water and try to get the paint off, any suggestions as to how to get it off with the boat in the water? Thanks for the help.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John you're mostly correct. some slow solvents will attack plastics differently depending on the type of plastic bit if left in contact too long they will usually leech out the plasticizer used in their production. That new car smell that everyone loves? Its caused by the plasticizers used in the seats, carpet backing, foam padding and plastic parts in the car. The attack on the plastic varies by the type of plastic and amount of plasticizer used.
Jack, I wonder if you have access to a different transducer to test with. Any friends with boats you could plug you head unit into just to rule it out as the problem? From your description it might not be the transducer but a bad connector or wire.
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jschof76
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry that is a great idea I will have to find somone with a Raymarine A60 unit I think that would be the best bet now to rule out the paint. Is any one familiar with Raymarine products?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dont have one myself ( I use garmin) but thier website show the A60 is comprised on the head unit, the transducer and a sounder module. Do you have all 3 of these? There is also a few manuals you can look at to hopefully check your setup
http://www.raymarine.com/ProductDetail.aspx?SITE=1&SECTION=2&PAGE=1227&PRODUCT=4060
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Here is the correct wiring for your setup.
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jschof76
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry my father does have all of these on his Pace, on the module there is actually a light indicator that is to remain blinking green, which it is, now if it goes red it indicates that it is not working properly, or something could be disconected. I will look again this weekend, hopefully my wife does not go in to labor yet. I still need more time on the water before the baby comes.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats are due huh? Is this your first? Hopefully you can get it figured out and still have time for the wife. When my wife was pregnant she had me carry a beeper but that was before cell phones were everywhere.
Good luck with the boat and the baby
Terry
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jack,

Congratulations, I hope that everything works out and pass it on to your wife and the proud grandparents.
Terry, Speaking about paint and plastics, when I was a kid I was building a model car and used the wrong spray paint on the body. It actually schriveled up. Never made that mistake again.

John
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jschof76
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guy's I am going to get over to the boat this weekend and give everything a once over again and then hop in the water and wipe off the tranducer. I will keep you up dated. Terry, yes this is our first child, and I don't have a beeper ,but I have todays great thing the phone that is at my hip at all times. I guess it's really the same, but onlly a little diffferent right!!
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its amazing how far things have changed since my son was born in 93. Let us know how both things come out (baby and the boat)
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Jack, congratulations on the little one to come !! As far as your depth finder, I don't think it's your transducer,so why don't you just let it alone for a little while. Your unit should have a simulator mode on it if it does then switch to it and see if the numbers come up. With something totally missing from the display it is usually a part or wire that's the cause.First, was it working OK before ? If you were getting wrong readings then I might focus on the transducer,but it sounds to like a different problem. An interchange like Terry suggested is a great idea, but you need to find someone with a similar unit.lso in the back of your manual there should be section on trouble shooting that may help you and an 800 number to call for help, they may be able to lead you right to it.
Good luck on both The Baby and the Boat, we're all pulling for ya!!
One Question, did the paint contain any metal ?(copper,zinc,etc.)this would prevent the sonar from penetrating the bottom plate on the transducer and if any got thru then it would also stop any return signal from getting back into it.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leo, Welcome back, I guess the operation was a success since you;re back in front of the computer again. And again, you pointed out an obvious item I forgot. Anti-fouling pint usually contains copper to prevent marine growth and in simulator the display mode should be working normal even if the transducer is bad I resign my commission and pass the reins over to the true master LEO!!!! Twisted Evil
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leokow
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AW SHUCKS....Terry, you didn't have to go and do that !!LOL. I know you have been under a lot of stress lately, so we'll just agree that our resident chemist is having some problems with data drop outs!LOL Hell, I thought I was reaching way out into left field on that one,see, even a monkey falls from the tree once in a while ! However, back to the problem, I still think it's in the unit or the wiring(connectors) and not the transducer.
A few words on the surgery , since you brought it up. It did go well, until 2AM then everything went south and by 5AM I was into full withdrawl.
So it was back to emergency and after 10 hours there it was ICU for the next 2 days. I got out Sunday morning around noon, and now everything seems to be working fine. The bad thing about this trip is that no one can figure out what went wrong, not the neuro surgeon, not the tech dept. for the co. that makes my pump, nobody! So this episode is going down as a mystery. Needless to say , I am not very happy about not knowing what went wrong,that means it can happen again ,anytime, this is not a very comfortable feeling.From Sat.afternoon they kept turning down the IV meds and seeing if the pump was taking over, they did it in 3 steps until Sun.morn.,1mg.at a time,until I was fully on the internal pump and all the external meds. were shut off. Now, if everything stays as it is , I'll try to go back to NJ tomorrow.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for all of your problems Leo. Sometimes the boat gremlins take over in other areas and cause problems that just seem to be a mystery. Glad they got it figured out and you will be going home. I have to agree with you about trying the simulator mode to see if the display is working correctly. Thats one of the reasons I suggested he plug his head unit into a different boat that would tell if the head display was bad or if it was wiring. I had a similar problem with my Garmin and it turned out to be the connector from the antenna wasnt making a good connection and my unit would go to not navigating display and then to tracking and back and forth between the 2 displays.
I didnt get to take the boat out this last weekend but did fix the water in the gas problem. I posted about it in the fuel section
Terry
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leokow
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should have expected it ,Terry, sometimes I feel like that guy in the comics years ago, I think he was in Lil Abner , he was a little guy that used to walk aroung with a black rain cloud over his head! Mr. Myxysplik or something like that.
I almost expect things to go whacky, it happens so often. Anyway, I'm none the worse for it all, although it does get a bit dicey loosing control of your body and senses,it really is a horrible feeling and your blood pressure goes thru the roof and doesn't come down until they gey things under control.This time it took them 10 hrs. because they miscaculated the amount my pump puts in my system and what strength an IV med. has to be to equal things out. Now that I know its 6 to 1 I won't have to go thru a day like that again. getting back to normal real fast now, so I guess everything is going to be fine. Talk to you later...Leo
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jschof76
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leo, it is great to see you back, after all that I have read that you have gone through this year, god bless and keep your head up. I always love reading every thing on this site and participating sometimes when I need to as well, you all are very helpfull. Well this is the update from this weekend, re-checked all wires good. Went in the water cleaned transducer with hand (hardly any paint on transducer had goggles on, while I was under the boat cleaned intakes and water line ) Important part I heard the transducer working!! After 2-3 hours of my father and I scratching our heads I told him to call Raymarine. To our suprise Raymarine said this does happen on occasion and that they will gladly swap out our unit for another. Fingers are crossed and hopes that this solves the problem. As far as the baby looks like my wife will have to be induced so I will be a dad this weekend. Will update soon

Jack
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jack,

Good luck with the baby and good health to the baby and your wife.

John
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jack, make sure you take care of the missus and the new baby and congats again
Terry
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations to both you and your wife, Jack !!! Also to the super proud grandparents !

Amazing , what a phone call will do , sometimes !!
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jschof76
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Problem solved, new unit fixed everything!!! Works perfect, makes you wonder that they know they are sending flawed units out. In addition my wife and I had a baby girl, Genevieve and wife are doing great. Thanks for your help!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a cigar for both the baby and the boat, Congrats!! Laughing Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jack,

Congratualations and the the best of luck and health to all.

John
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