Pacemaker Boats

[Riverlad12]

We have hauled our 47' Motor Yacht for the first time in over 9 years. Needless to say there is a lot of work to be done. We have found that the frames in between the stringers are mostly all rotted and broken. As a result the bottom allignment with the keel is about 2" out of wack. We knew that this work was going to have to be done when we bought the boat in '95.
The plan is to cold mould the bottom using a layer of fiberglass mat two layers of 1/4" plywood strips and finishing with another layer of mat.
Once we get the bottom jacked up into shape we will proceed. We will sister or replace the affected frames and use a lot of epoxy putting things together.
We are also going to replace the lower section of the transom and framework in this area.
If anyone has any suggestions or comments it would be great to hear them.
Have to get to work now!
Daynor

[Anonymous]

hey daynor,

i could really get on a soap box here, 9 year's and knowing of existing problem's? wow, just my opinion but these issue's should have been addressed at purchase,or quickly there after. i think your in for all sort's of grief now. if the keel is two inch's out what about the engine's and shaft's? i cant help but feel that since wood has been broken and now compressed there will be issue's with allignment's. i would also believe you have all sort's of door, window and hatchway problem's as well.how do you plan on straightening out the keel? the through bolt's must be bent,some i would believe have stress crack's,most of the screw's holding the planking are surely torqued beyond belief, if not ripping through and pushing outward depending on respective side's.let's look at glassing her up realisticly,all boat's especialy woodie's twist and torque in all direction's.this will lead to cracking in your glass and if she's not hauled for another 9 year's you wont see the problem's occuring below the waterline, once they surface in the bilge you know it's way to late. now let's say there are no fresh water leak's on deck or topside. the original planking will sweat or condensate under the matting, what happen's now? this water will pool at the lowest point it can get and soak into your matting. now the glass is very weak and will crack or break. even if you do get her all sealed up, the old wood drie's out and is now very brittle, subject to breaking under the load of her own weight let alone pounding some decent wave's. that thin layer of glass wont be of much help in this case.as you can tell i do not support glassing up a wooden hull no matter who does the work or how "professionaly" it's done, there will be problem's in her future. wooden boats need wood repair's. truely i am sorry to sound so negative toward's this but i'm just giveing my opinion. stepping off soap box now. whops one more thing, i believe any old wooden hull need's to be on a schedule of hauling out max of 5 years for inspection of her,it's just smart.

[merwin10]

Daynor,

Terry is not one to blow his own horn!! What Terry did not mention is that he is a chemist in the applied materials and knows what he is talking about - He is the one with the hands on experience and applied knowledge that we rely on - If I were you I would seek his council - Aside from it being his job, he also has years of experience in restoration of boats -

FOLLOW UP::::: OOPS! Wrong Terry (Changeofpace) is who I am reffering to - Noted that this could be mis-read!

Mike -
_________________
"Best part of Boating -- is the people you meet"

[Riverlad12]

Hi Terry & Mike,
First let me state that I agree with both of your comments.
Actually the work that we are starting now we had planned on doing eight years ago, however my wife was severely injured in a boating accident in 1999 and the priority over the last years was her rehabilitation. Now we are at the point where we can get back to concentrating on the boat.
Now that we have that out of the way, I have been studying almost every method possible to make the restoration of our boat practical and the most seaworthy. I have studied Allan Vaitses method of covering wooden boats with fiberglass and a lot of his method makes sense. Also the practice of cold moulding boat bottoms has had major success. (It works very well for Rybovitch.)
Also one of the major flaws in the construction of the wooden Pacemakers is the omission of any frames or struts to displace the weight of the engines on the stringers to the keel. Hence if any of the pior owners had run this boat aground, and there is evidence of this, it tends to push up the keel in relation to the rest of the bottom. This is the situation that we are faced with. As far as allignment goes the engines, shafts, stuffing box and struts are pretty well alligned. The frames and planking are in good shape outboard of the inboard stringer.
The plan is to install one layer of biaxial fiberglass mat,wrapping the keel and up to the spray rails. Then we will place two layers of 1/4" mahogany plywood strips treated with epoxy and nailed to the planking. Over this we will place another layer of mat and fair it out. We plan on running the sprayrail the lenght of the boat to create a water stop.
I have done a fair amount of research on this and it seems to be the best answer.
Let me know what you think. Incedently Ihave been working on boats for longer than I care to admit inluding restoration of a '56 Wheeler that I lived on for 4 years. All the repairs on that boat were done with wood.
Daynor

[changeofpace]

I would have agree with Terry, The wood is very old and will shrink when it dries up. If there is any way to make sure the wood is totally dry before you start I would strongly suggest it. Even then, the old wood will tend to want to split or crack when it twists. I have seen other wooden boats that have been fiberglassed over and even though the job was done carefully, the boat still will twist and when it does, small cracks start to open up in the fiberglass resin. When this starts, its only a matter of time before the water will make its way down to the fiberglass cloth. Once this happens, it wicks along the cloth to the lowest point, where it collects.and eventually starts blistering and/or delaminating.
I know of a Cris Craft that still sits at my marina where the guy glassed over the wood and after a few years, the boat started sinking at the dock. The fiberglass had delaminated around the keel and the water had made its way up under the cloth causing the protective barrier of the resin to fail. Since it was below the waterline, he never noticed anything wrong until his pumps started running full time trying to keep the boat afloat. he is now trying to get all of the remaining fiberglass off so he can recaulk and repaint.
I dont want to sound negative either, just want to make sure you understand the problems terry tried to explain
changeofpace

[Anonymous]

i also wanted to make clear humbely my position in restoration of a wooden hull. my expierence applied has been soley on my own boat. the knowledge i have been given is from the very generous owner's of the marina we ar at, reading, and the first hand expierence of a few other older gentlemen that have taken me under their wing, it has been an enjoyable education for me. being a tradesmen my adult life i really am a stickler when it come's to doing a job. i have seen different molding's in all sort's of manner's in the plumbing industry, i have no doubt in the use and life of the these. i used epoxy product's in the reconstruction of rib's i replaced. although this was not used at original construction. i followed the advice and used the stuff to layer up the piece's.i really dont want to come off trying to sound like a smarty pant's. my repair's are done as close to original construction as i can, so in my mind all i can say is that's the way it was built.

[Morning Wood]

Daynor,
First of all I hope your wife is doing fine now. With that said I will offer some advice that you will not want to hear. Your initial fix is a bandaid at best. Rybovich built their boats on a jig and new when they were glassed.
Your boat is torqued out of shape. Unless you will keep this boat for a very long time ,fixing her correctly will involve a very labor intensive and high dollar endeavor. You will more than likely exceed the boat's worth. Right now if you can I would consider either biting the bullet and fix her correctly if you have the means. Then figure on 3 years to fix her on the hard. That is a conservative estimate IMHO. Or scrap her and walk away. The glass repair will postpone the inevitable for a few years but the end result will be the same as mentioned above. I truely feel for you but there is no other means to fix her than pull planks, replace frames, and hope you can cure your keel woes. Please think long and hard before you commit to this. I have been restoring wood boats for 25 years and so many people loose so much of their investment trying to rehab something that is beyond their means. Good Luck Sir.